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NWCCA counting events
Hello cross riders!
I was wandering what people thought about the format for the league for overall qualification? Last year I personally struggled to get my 10 events in, as like many I work on a Saturdays. I was training with a team mate this week and we talked about how much more competitive the overall league would be if maybe 8 or 9 events counted instead of the normal 10. There are 16 races in the league this year with 3 or 4 on Sats and a few Sundays clashing with major races. It will be especially tough for those without the luxury of 2 bikes to remedy mechanicals! The inevitable illness,Family commitments.. bla bla!
I scanned through the league from last year and noticed a large proportion of riders registered for points were unable to get 10 results in, however many raced 8 or 9 times. I spoke with an organiser at otterspool last weekend who remembered years when there were over 25 races to obtain 10 results!!
Anyway. I found out this evening that this year rider's must finish 12 events to qualify!!.. I think a few riders will be losing overall podium and top positions!
My overall feeling is that the importance of your league position looses meaning when your ahead or behind based on not having the ability to 'get your 10 in'. There are other races,family,work etc to fit in. I think finding 8 or 9 or 10 weekends in winter and finishing all of these is hardly lack of commitment!!!
ps. My girlfriend hates watching!
Ant Bethell
Tags: NWCCA
Views: 531
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Antony Bethell on -
pps. This does not affect me this year cause i have no chance of fitting work around 12 races. Just thinking about the credibility of the league. CROSS CROSS CROSS!!!
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Permalink Reply by Alan Dorrington on -
Totally agree Antony - I've moaned about this for a while now. I too struggle to do 10 and 12 is hopeless.
Yorkshire leaguers have a lower number to count as far as I am aware and this makes it very competitive still. Additionally, my other gripe is about the number of events crammed into mid October and early November with big gaps in December and to some extent September. A pattern of several double weekenders and then blank weekends later in the season doesn't help those with families who are not cycling mad or work commitments achieve a representative League position.
I will be going to the AGM to raise points like this, including the possibility of splitting the massive fields we have are enjoying into separate Vets /Ladies and Senior/Junior races. Feel free for anybody to let me know what ideas people have for both these issues.
I was under the impression that it was 10 events as normal - we had a situation a couple of years ago where there was a decision mid season to raise the number upwards (to 12?) as new events came on line. This seemed unfair as I and many others had planned our season and other commitments according to 10. It would be a shame if this has happened again.....
Alan
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Permalink Reply by Dave Haygarth on -
I feel 12 is way too many too. I look after the NWCCA website (but am only the messenger!) and cringed that there wasn't a "number" on there from day one this season. That's just bad communication, which doesn't help here at all. (sorry!).
I think we need to go back to what the motivation was for averaging it over ten in the past (or 75% as it actually is) was to ensure that some of the 'less popular' events got ridden (ie not just those in the M62 corridor). I think that approach is worthy, but we indeed do have too many events now. 12 is way too many. I have children (who dabble in the U12s but would rather be watching TV I feel... pushy dad syndrome) and a wife who really really couldn't give a t*ss about cyclocross. My 'option' is to either leave them at home (crappy option, very bad father / husband) or ask them to tolerate standing about in the cold for 2 hrs for 12 weekends a year (if I wanted to do the series). 10 was too much for me (but I choose to ride National Trophies, 3 peaks etc) but 12 is daft unless you happen to be single or from a FAMILY that loves cycling.
Forums are fine, but all PLEASE get your butts to the AGM. Let's sort this out.
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Permalink Reply by mark turner on -
12! what is strange to me is that this number has appeared in November, this should be decided at the begining of the season not mid point when riders have already selected the events they can attend.
It seems we are at a watershed with the NWCCA more riders entering mean races are at times fraught as lines are sought and single track becomes a queue. Changes are required it is how we go about them.
Hopefully I will be at the AGM (work permitting) but we could do with a clear requirement to work with rather than it being a free for all.
splitting the U12's & U8 may encourage more to come and try without the fear of being run over, a split as per Yorkshire and Alan suggests will certainly help with first lap bottlenecks etc but will require more time from marshalls and lapkeepers, or more people helping out.
Less popular events do they look at dropping them off the series?
Is it worth trying to get a survey out to riders and see what their feedback is?
just a thougt about National Trophy events how many NW riders go? if we dont put an event on so as not to clash with these are we losing race days for a minor number of riders?
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Permalink Reply by Antony Bethell on
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Your right about the National Trophy Mark. Not many do it. Its just another factor. I know a few lads are not doing them so they can get the league points in. Would be a shame to race 8-9-10 times and miss out on the overall from attending the NT or the Inter region.
I think the less popular races are purely down to distance. Ulverston for example is a 240 mile round trip for me. Around £50 diesel.I love all the events by the way and thank all who make them happen.
I actually reckon more riders would attend races if the counting amount was lower.(i made it bold for impact!!). Many riders getting 5 or 6 rides in would look at fitting more in if it was say 8 needed. The vast majority of the league i refer to!!
There are so many riders competing nowadays with 120+ fields that i dont think the old idea of riders choosing the most local events would matter. We all live in different places.
Dave your right about needing to raise these points at the AGM. I just wanted to see what sort of response riders would have to my opinion. Thanks for all the web work you put in too. Nobody would be reading this otherwise. I'll say Hi next time you and I race so you know my face!
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Permalink Reply by Giles Drake on
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For me, I've not gone to National Trophies or Inter-Areas because I knew I needed at least 10 rounds for the league. I had some bad luck earlier in the season and I needed to make up some points. I found out this past weekend it was going to be 12 which I agree should of been communicated at the start of the season! So maybe the league should consider ignoring the rule of "75%" for this year and applying 10 rounds but only due to the late nature of this "Announcement".
That being said, it is a league and you can't just have half the results counting towards your overall finish. I also think this would actually damage the numbers you would get attending. Let's ask for a show of hands who would of still attended the Rhyl round last weekend they didn't need the safety net of an extra round to score at? (Not because there was anything wrong with the event that was put on this year but due to previous experiences) The league has to remain about consistant finishing over the duration of the season and it should remain so!
Ant, you know I want you to get a final league position for the team's sake but I much prefer the league is favourable to the rider that turns up to every event, supports every organiser & sticks at it from September to January than the rider that picks and chooses his events in Sep & Oct when the temperature isn't -5 and then isn't seen again! That does nothing for the league or the organisers that get stuck in November, December & January.
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Permalink Reply by Antony Bethell on
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Giles!
I think you missed my point on this one! The point here is not about me or my ability to get 10 races in its about the 150 odd riders who register to get points in. Im still suggesting riders commit a large proportion of there lives to cross in the winter!! At the moment the amount of riders to qualify represents the minority. Thats not fair right?
Once again this has nothing to do with my league position. I know a few lads who will lose top positions cause they can maybe only squeeze 10 in. I for one would not feel happy beating a rider in the league cause they were so 'uncommited' or pehaps just unlucky enough to finish 9 or 10 races even thogh they putting me away each week. Whether your 1st 0r 100th its important to that rider.
Giles Drake said:For me, I've not gone to National Trophies or Inter-Areas because I knew I needed at least 10 rounds for the league. I had some bad luck earlier in the season and I needed to make up some points. I found out this past weekend it was going to be 12 which I agree should of been communicated at the start of the season! So maybe the league should consider ignoring the rule of "75%" for this year and applying 10 rounds but only due to the late nature of this "Announcement".
That being said, it is a league and you can't just have half the results counting towards your overall finish. I also think this would actually damage the numbers you would get attending. Let's ask for a show of hands who would of still attended the Rhyl round last weekend they didn't need the safety net of an extra round to score at? (Not because there was anything wrong with the event that was put on this year but due to previous experiences) The league has to remain about consistant finishing over the duration of the season and it should remain so!
Ant, you know I want you to get a final league position for the team's sake but I much prefer the league is favourable to the rider that turns up to every event, supports every organiser & sticks at it from September to January than the rider that picks and chooses his events in Sep & Oct when the temperature isn't -5 and then isn't seen again! That does nothing for the league or the organisers that get stuck in November, December & January.
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Permalink Reply by Ray Pugh on -
All, this is my opinion and not the NWCCA Committee on which I sit.
Regarding the number of races, the 75% rule was running back in 2007, just checked on the website, when there was 9 counting out of 12. So its not changed over the years as it could only be changed at the AGM.
I agree with Giles regarding supporting events, Rhyl is a good example and this year was a good course with some fine racing by those who attended. Riding the unpopular events is nothing new, Kirkby track was one example in the past.
Regarding dates, Organisers seldom have their dates sorted at the time of the AGM, and are ALWAYS trying to keep away from December, apart from the traditional Macc Whlrs supacross. So there is clash on the favouroured Sunday dates from September to mid November and hence dual weekends occur rather than cancel an event.
I notice the people commenting are not current race organisers, or attendees at the AGM, so the committee do their best with what information we have at the time.
I would welcome more to attend and volunteer for posts, maybe its time for new new blood on the NWCCA committee.
Ray
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Permalink Reply by mark turner on
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Hi Ray,
just to say I organised the Hope CSP CX race in October assisted by Alan Dorrington, we are currently looking at two venues for next year and i am also looking at a 3 or 4 race summer series!
hopefully depending on the date of the agm i will be there also i am no 43 in the NW league so please feel free to chat at any races i can get to i will be there on Sunday.
like anything if an event is not good for whatever reason it is always hard then to convince people to try it again maybe thats were this forum could be very useful to get the word out
Mark
Ray Pugh said:All, this is my opinion and not the NWCCA Committee on which I sit.
Regarding the number of races, the 75% rule was running back in 2007, just checked on the website, when there was 9 counting out of 12. So its not changed over the years as it could only be changed at the AGM.
I agree with Giles regarding supporting events, Rhyl is a good example and this year was a good course with some fine racing by those who attended. Riding the unpopular events is nothing new, Kirkby track was one example in the past.
Regarding dates, Organisers seldom have their dates sorted at the time of the AGM, and are ALWAYS trying to keep away from December, apart from the traditional Macc Whlrs supacross. So there is clash on the favouroured Sunday dates from September to mid November and hence dual weekends occur rather than cancel an event.
I notice the people commenting are not current race organisers, or attendees at the AGM, so the committee do their best with what information we have at the time.
I would welcome more to attend and volunteer for posts, maybe its time for new new blood on the NWCCA committee.
Ray
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Permalink Reply by Dave Haygarth on
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Crikey it's good to see all this enthusiasm for the league anyway. Was chatting to a running friend the other night who said they saw someone throw their bike on the floor at a NWCCA chipper race the other week after the finish. I'm sure that was an exaggeration but the silver lining is that people have a great league to be competing in! Long live NWCCA !
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Permalink Reply by Kelly Baptista on
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Ray
If the rule was running in 2007 what happened in 2008-2009 season, according to final league table on NWCCA website for that year looks like 10 out of 16 events counted
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pZY7vR7PxoG9s3UBXUzUzAg . I think a lot of people presumed it was 10 again this year. I know we did and planned the season based on this as we also have cross country running and bmx to fit in. We even did a mad dash from pignut hill to a bmx race to enable the kids to fit enough rounds in for each discipline. Maybe it should have been made clearer from start of season, even announcing it on start line for each age group would have given majority of people the correct info.
Oh and Ant, I'm sure you are right, when we used to race in youth event there were at least 20 events and I'm sure only 10 counted as I think there was a draw 1 year with 2 lads winning 10 each, I'll have to hunt them pink books out that they used to do for end of season presentation with each race write up and results in, I'm sure I am sad and have still got them somewhere!
Ray Pugh said:All, this is my opinion and not the NWCCA Committee on which I sit.
Regarding the number of races, the 75% rule was running back in 2007, just checked on the website, when there was 9 counting out of 12. So its not changed over the years as it could only be changed at the AGM.
I agree with Giles regarding supporting events, Rhyl is a good example and this year was a good course with some fine racing by those who attended. Riding the unpopular events is nothing new, Kirkby track was one example in the past.
Regarding dates, Organisers seldom have their dates sorted at the time of the AGM, and are ALWAYS trying to keep away from December, apart from the traditional Macc Whlrs supacross. So there is clash on the favouroured Sunday dates from September to mid November and hence dual weekends occur rather than cancel an event.
I notice the people commenting are not current race organisers, or attendees at the AGM, so the committee do their best with what information we have at the time.
I would welcome more to attend and volunteer for posts, maybe its time for new new blood on the NWCCA committee.
Ray
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Permalink Reply by Antony Bethell on
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If you find them Kelly bring them to a race.I loved those things! Remember those Black & White pictures inside! ha haa!
Ant
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